tv State of the Union CNN July 31, 2011 9:00am-10:00am EDT
100% at the national hurricane center. the path is it would go to the west northwest this evening and then mopd possibly becoming a hurricane, and fast-forwarding into san juan. it's down to the wire, and a deal on the debt ceiling could be near. today as negotiations wall street white house continue, we're with three of the key players, the man who could cut the final deal, leader of the senate republicans, mitch mcconnell, and the message maker, senator chuck schumer, and the lead economic adviser.
and then mark sandy to tell us whether a deal with save the u.s. credit rating, and finally presidential politics. candy crowley in iowa with candidate, tim pawlenty. >> you can be both strong and pleasant and nice. those are not contradictory things. >> i am gloria borger in for candy crowley, and this is st e "state of the union." mitch mcconnell yesterday demanded that president obama get personally involved in the debt talks and he soon got his wish, and now there are reports this morning a plan is near. mitch mcconnell, thank you for being with us. let me get to it. can you announce this morning that a plan has been reached and there's a deal? >> we are very close. we had a good day yesterday, both the president and vice president called me and the president talked to the speaker as well, and they understand
with a republican majority in the house and a republican in the senate, and we made progress in that direction since april when the administration asked us to raise the debt ceiling with no reductions at all. i think i can confidently say this debt ceiling increase will avoid default, which is important for everybody in america to know we are not going to have a default for the first time, and we're not going to have job-killing tax increases in it, and we will deal with the problem, and that's that the government has been spending too much. we have not been taxing too little but spending too much. we're in a position where hopefully i can recommend to my members they take a serious look at it and support it. >> get it done when? >> soon. >> today? >> soon. we're aware that august 2nd is a
date of some significance. >> let me walk you through an outline of this potential deal. there has been reporting from cnn and elsewhere about what it contains. first the size of the package, over $2 trillion, yes? >> the entire package? >> yeah, $2.4 trillion -- >> we're looking at a $3 trillion package, cuts now and caps over the next ten years to hold spending in line, and then we're also going to be voting on a constitutional amendment to balance the budget. that's important for the future, because it will put some constraints on our spending habits here in washington. let me emphasize the joint committee. in the early stages of this discussion, the press was talking about another commission. this is not a commission. this is a powerful, joint committee with a equal number of republicans and senate -- equal
number of republicans and democrats, and to make a recommendation back to the senate and house by thanksgiving of this year for an up or down vote. think of the base closing legislation that we passed a few years ago for an up or down vote in the senate. >> let me walk you through this in stages. there are discussions about committee. there are discussions about what would happen if it doesn't do its work. let's -- first things first, though. >> yeah. >> one sticking point has been the president wanted an absolute guarantee we would not go through this kind of a showdown six months from now on the debt ceiling, has he gotten his wish on that and is there a way for the debt ceiling to come up in six months and he gets guaranteed approval of it? >> he was concerned about not having to do this again before his election. frankly, my members were more concerned about getting the job
done properly for the american people -- >> what is the deal and fix? >> you will see, this is a process that could get him past the election, and we're working on the combinations that will get us there. >> would it be a vote of disapproval, where he could propose it and he needs a super majority to disapprove? >> well, the mechanism forgetting the increase would be the resolution disapproval. we're still working on the parameters of it and being close to be able, i am to recommend to my members, that this is something they should be able to support. i am very close to being able to recommend to my members that we have an agreement here that i hope they will consider supporting. >> and the next big area is the debt committee, as you call it, and the question is how do they guarantee absolutely that you get the kind of deficit
reduction you are looking for, because we have had, with all due respect, committees in the past and they have not done so well, one very recently, and how do you hold fair feet to the fire? there is talk of triggers to make sure if they do not do their work congress will be forced to cut. >> first of all, we have not had anything like this. this is a joint committee of congress. it's not a commission that consists of outsiders. it's a joint committee of congress with an equal number of republicans and democrats, under enormous pressure from the american people, from the markets, foreign countries looking at us to see if we're going to get our house in order, to come up with significant additional savings over and above the initial ones that we will approve before the end of this year, and entitlement reform is absolutely critical. for example, the -- the trustees
of the medicare and social security system appointed by the president has said repeatedly, both of these very important and essential programs are in serious trouble. >> my report something, and i would like you to talk about go what is going on inside the room you are in, the question is how do you absolutely guarantee that these cuts come? and as i was saying, there are triggers people are talking about so that if, for example, they can't agree, let's just say that, then there is talk of across the board spending cuts, of as much as 4% in areas like medicare and defense spending. can you talk about these sort of fail-safe mechanisms that would enforce cuts? >> my view is that there is a math math kul possibility,
obviously, that the committee could deadlock. a mathematical possibility. and there is a discussion with the white house, and you are having one of their folks on earlier to talk about it. and there are a lot of conversation about what do you do if they deadlock. i hope we're on a path to resolving it. >> what if? >> we'll let you know. >> i will try again. because the big concern of the democrats like jean superling, if the committee dead locks, and you have to come up with a reduction, and they want to see balance, see revenues and spending cuts. is there a way you can guarantee that revenues would be part of any kind of overall big second phase of this? >> at the risk of frustrating you, let me say again, the trigger issue has been the one
locked us in the extensive discussions. i thought we were very close to an agreement a week ago today, and then went off to our separate corners and had volleys, and now we are back into the position where we will let you know when we agree to something. >> what is your -- >> we will let you know. >> clearly, this is the sticking point. can you say the triggers are the sticking points? >> that has been an item of outstanding discussion for over a week. >> and let me go to something that you mentioned earlier, which has also been a point of convention, and that's the question of the balanced budget amendment. the people in the house and the speaker's plan wanted a guarantee of passage of the balanced budget amendment. would that be in any deal or would there just be a guarantee of a vote --
>> we intend to be voting on the balanced budget amendment in the senate, and we will let you know when that is scheduled. >> as part of the plan? >> we will be voting on the balanced budget, and i hope it will pass, because that's a restraint long term on the government of the united states which it has demonstrated it cannot get its financial house in order without assistance. >> would you expect john boehner would need to deliver half -- >> look, i serve in the senate. the best i can tell you is, i am hoping very soon to have an agreement that i can recommend to my members and we're hoping we will have a number of them support it. >> why would conservatives who want a guarantee of the passage of the proposed amendment and
deeper cuts, why would they sign on to the deal? >> what conservatives want to do is cut spending, and back in april the administration was asking us to raise the debt ceiling with nothing attached to it at all. we have come along way. i think this agreement is likely to encompass up to $3 trillion in spending reductions, and no tax increases that we know will kill jobs, and the president made that argument last december when he passed a bill to extend the current tax rates for two more years, and he understands that tax increases are a job killer, particularly when you have over 9% unemployment, and that certainly is not going to be part of this. >> can you guarantee to conservatives that no tax increases will be part of this deal? >> we're not going to raise taxes in this deal. i just said that, and i will say it again, there are no tax increases in this bill. >> if there is tax reform and closing loopholes -- >> there will be no tax
increases in this proposapropos. >> why would democrats sign on to this, then? >> we have over 9% unemployment, gloria, over 9%. they understood then, the president understood then it was a job killer to do that. we don't intend to start doing that. this is not what this is about. the government spends too much and does not tax too little. >> why would the democrats sign on a compromise that included potential entitlement cuts but no tax -- >> you will have to ask them. if we get an agreement the president will support it and he will make the arguments in favor of it and you will have to ask the democrats what their motivation might be. >> we will ask that in a moment to senator shuck schumer. what has it been like to deal with the president and the vice president? >> i like them both.
i have had dealings with them over the last couple years and i am appreciative back to talking to the only person in america that can sign something into law, and that's the president of the united states. >> maybe next time you will be able to tell us exactly what the deal is. thank you very much. up next, are democrats going to be onboard with the possible deal? we will talk to new york senator, chuck schumer, up next. . in here, inventory can be taught to learn. ♪ machines have a voice. ♪ medical history follows you. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibilities... committed to delivering the most advanced mobile broadband experience to help move business... forward. ♪
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this -- there is no final agreement. nobody has signed off on a final agreement so it's premature to talk about any specifics. most important thing this morning is if there's a word right here that would sum up the mood would be relief, relief that we won't default. that's not a certainty, but default is far less of a possibility now than it was even a day ago, because the leaders are talking and talking in a constructive way to come up with a solution that would avoid default. but there are lots of things that are not filled in and many more discussions to go. so it's hard to say anything specifically about this, that or the other thing. >> sounds like they moved past the question about whether you can get another increase in the debt ceiling six months down the line, making it virtually automatic essentially. >> it's very important for president obama and to us, and
not for the reasons senator mcconnell mentioned because we would risk default down a couple months, and then did this again, and it's vital for the credit markets to have as long of a term approach as possible, and it seems quite clear the debt ceiling will be raised enough so that we won't have to come back to this until 2013. that's important for another reason as well, and not only the credit markets, but we have to focus on the jobs and the economy growing, and if we are just consumed for the debt ceiling for the year and a half, it would be a dare licktion to our duties. >> and we have the question of this enforcement mechanism for cuts in the second part of this, and senator mcconnell was essentially saying that this could affect across the board cuts in things like entitlement
programs and no revenue. how do you negotiate that? >> well, certainly the enforcement mechanism is one of the key issues that is still being debated, and it's one of the issues that made this process go on for so long. and here is what you had to say about it. enforcement mechanism doesn't require, but imports and makes it likely that the people in this committee come to an agreement, because if they don't the pain inflikted is so great they have an incentive to come to an agreement. that means there should be a sword of equal sharpless and strength hanging over each party's head, and obviously the sword over the democrats are the cuts, we don't like them and want to help middle class people pay for their kids to get to college and prescription drugs and things like that, and what
is the sword over the republicans? it has to be of equal sharpness and strength. the preference would be some kind of something on the wealthy, or defense cuts to equal sharpness and magnitude, and when the trigger had significant cuts, it brought the parties to the table and came up with had a balanced agreement of both revenues and cuts. >> if the committee gets deadlocked, which is a possibility to say, here are all the things everybody hates sitting out there, and they will all be triggered and they will occur? >> that's right. hopefully that brings the parties to an agreement that each side -- >> what if it doesn't?
>> well, if it doesn't -- we hope it does. >> that would make it more likely that congress would -- >> that this joint committee, that this joint committee, and senator mcconnell, i was very glad to say he thinks a result will come out of the joint committee, and so do we. we will fight hard that it be balanced and it have both on the joint committee, revenues and spending cuts, and otherwise it's not fair -- >> how are you guarantee that? >> there's no guarantee, but what makes it a likely possibili possibility, as i said as the strengthness and sharpness and equality of the two swoerds. we cannot go for a sword that is tough on democrats and not tough on republicans. >> how do you say -- >> what happens is if the bipartisan committee cannot come to an agreement, then these things take affect and republicans and democrats go
ouch, we better avoid it. >> you are saying you have to have some system that shocks you into doing your job because you might not -- >> well, there is a difference, we have a divided house and senate and government, and if one party controlled all three, this would not be that hard. our preference to have a balanced approach, to make sure that the tax loopholes for yachts and corporate jets and the wealthiest among us be part of it, and their view is that shouldn't be the one to take all the cuts, and we think there should not be cuts for medicaid and social security, so these are very real differences that have to be bridged and the only way to bridge them is with an enforcement mechanism that is tough and equal. >> are democrats -- if this were the case, are democrats ready to provide the bulk of the votes to get this? >> it's much too early to tell.
reid is being consulted on an hourly basis by the administration, and it's too early to tell. make no mistake about it, obviously they can't pass this without democratic votes in the senate, and so we have real input. >> in hearing you say that revenues have to be part of it and mcconnell says the revenues can't be part of it, and so is that tax reform -- >> it's our believe that revenues should be part and it's their believe revenues should not be part of it, but if the committee has a good mechanism, past history shows we will be able to get revenues as part of the committee. >> you have a committee and you will force it to work and if it doesn't work you will have something out there to force you -- >> both sides, it shouldn't favor one side or the other. >> as a leader of the democratic party how do you convince the
base of your party who doesn't want any potential cuts of entitlement to go along with this kind of a deal? >> well, again, you know, the ryan budget proposed a december amation of medicare and medicaid, and we fought back. we will continue the fight. the base of our party knows, there should be no cuts in medicaid or medicare. there could be savings, but the benefits to people who really need it should not be cut. that's been a fight we have been making quite successfully, and we will continue to make it in these negotiations and further forward. >> senator, thank you so much for being with us. up next, i will ask one of the president's economic advisers about where the president himself stands on the on going debt ceiling negotiations. stay with us.
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>> thank you for having me. >> you just heard mitch mcconnell talking about a $3 trillion deal, and absolutely no rev news as part of it. is that the deal you're working on? >> well, it's not going to surprise you that i am not going to negotiate here as much as i would like to -- >> that's too bad. >> -- or give details. three areas, one, we have a significant reduction, and he is fine with spending cuts mutually acceptable, and the second we come back with a more significant number, and that would include entitlement reform and tax reform that races revenu revenues, and then three, the cloud has to be lifted not just by the threat of default now but the idea that we would kick that threat down the road and go
through this whole mess again around the holidays. >> seems to me from talking to both of these senators that there seems to be a deal that has been reached to essentially allow an automatic approval of the next installment on the debt ceiling with a vote of disapproval say coming from the congress necessary, a super majority, so if that's the case, then you get to the second phase of this, and the second phase is the question we have been talking about all morning, which is how do you guarantee this commission and congress does the job it's supposed to be doing on the on this. i presume the president has been talking about it and i presume he wants it, and it's between revenues and spending cuts? >> i think senator schumer said it well. you want to have an enforcement mengnism, and what that means
when you get a bipartisan group together to aim for deficit reduction you want to make it hard for them to walk away and wash their hands, and you want them to say if something happens there will be a tough degree of pain that will take place -- >> sounds like you are talking to your children i might add, but never mind. >> but the important thing that snoor schumer said, which is correct, what matters is that enforcement mechanism be on both sides for compromise. both sides have to fear that enforcement mechanism enough they are willing to come to the table and compromise on an agreement. that happened in 1990 with president bush to avoid an enforcement mechanism and they came together for a balanced approach. the president is firm that he will not ask in a big deal for all of the burden to go on seniors, on children, on students, on the middle class families, and then ask nothing
of those that are most fortunate in his society. let's be clear. that's what most of the public supports, and let's also be clear for those familiar with the gang of six proposal, the bipartisan deal in the senate, we saw 15 or 16 republican senators as willing for tax reform were willing to go further -- >> yeah, but they didn't on the deficit commission. you had republicans on the deficit commission that voted against it because it had the possibility of tax increases. let's say you have the commission, and the republicans appoint people who are no taxers, and they don't want to raise revenues, and they start out there, and harry reid appoints a bunch of people that do want rev news? >> that's not what the president wants. he has been pushing both sides to compromise, and pushing both sides to make clear to the public and markets that divided
government doesn't have to be dysfunctional government. you want people who will be part of the coalition of getting something done. >> what i meant was the president's people would want to raise revenues and the republicans would not want to raise revenues, and so why wouldn't their be a stalemate? >> let's note a couple things. first of aushlgs nobody is talking about raising revenues over the next year and a half. the president has been pushing hard to cut taxes with the payroll tax cut extension for next year because we want to make sure we're giving the economy as much momentum as possible. but you have also seen a lot of bipartisan consensus, more than is reported that can you do a form of tax reform that lowers rates and still races revenue, and contributes to the debt reduction, and this could be done in a way that asks those more fortunate to contribute, and not because you want class
warfare but you want sacrifice. you don't want to ask seniors, and not ask the well-off americans not to sacrifice. that's the message the president will take to the american people in the coming months -- >> what i just heard you say is no revenues for the next year and a half. >> that has always been the president's position. the president -- remember, everything that we do, gloria, is about trying to strengthen the recovery, the economy, and getting jobs going. removing the uncertainty of default from our economy will be a significant help. giving greater confidence that there will be long-term deficit reduction will give people who are doing long term investments in our country the confidence to go forward. we have to make sure we are giving the recovery momentum. that's why he supports a tax cut and infrastructure bank proposal that can put construction
workers back to work creating jobs, and we're hoping we will find bipartisan support for those jobs creating efforts in the short term as well. >> thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> hope you get a deal. things look promising now, but what can we expect if a deal on the debt isn't reached by tuesday? mark sandy will break down how it will impact your financial security. ♪ [ male announcer ] an everyday moment can turn romantic anytime. and when it does, men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. ♪ cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day so you can be ready anytime the moment's right. ♪ tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications, and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain,
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welcome back to "state of the union." i am gloria borger. candy crowley is off today. and joining me from south dakota, mr. san de, i have to ask you off the bat. you have been listening out there this morning. what is your reaction to what you are hearing from mitch mcconnell and senator schumer? >> great news. sounds like we will avoid a crisis. $3 trillion in deficit reduction over the next ten years is more than what i would have expected. if they follow-through on that it's great news.
it gets us close to the fiscal responsibility, and that's what we need to get to to restore stau stainability in the fiscal responsibility. if they pull it off i think we will be in good shape. >> how do you think the markets will react? >> very positively. i think the markets expect they will get some kind of deal where they push the deal to the other side of the election. that's the minimum the market has expected. this sounds like it will go beyond that. the idea of a congressional committee with teeth and pressure to come to an agreement is a very positive step. i think the markets will react positively. >> does this pressure, the enforcement mekees ums, triggers as they are called in washington speak, would that give the markets some sense of certainty that we were going to head on a downward trajectory with a deficit, and is that enough for
them to feel certain about their business in the future and how they can operate? >> yes, i think so. obviously it depends on the details and how they will structure this and whether it actually does have teeth and merit. but just listening to the senators, it sounds like they are working into something that will be substantive, and that will provide enough certainty to businesses. and that's very important. in my mind, a key reason why the economy has not gotten going and why businesses have not got going, is because of this, and if they get the narrative it should be helpful. it will be positive. >> i know you are not a credit rating guru, but do you think this is also enough to kind of avert a downgrade from the aaa status right now? >> yes, of course, you know, i am not in the rating agency and i cannot speak for them, but
listening to what they have to say, i think this would be sufficient, yes. now, all the rating agencies have different opinions, and some way go down a different path, but broadly speaking -- if it comes to what they are talking about now, this is substantive and should avoid a downgrade. >> all of the spectacle and endless squabbling already hurt the economy to a certain degree? has it set us back? >> yes, i think it has. i think one of the reasons why we're not getting the kind of job growth that we need is because businesses are just shell shocked. i talk to a lot of businesses and industries all overt country and to the person they are extraordinary nervous about this. they don't lay off workers because of this, but they certainly don't hire workers, and that's what we need. if they get any kind of clarity on this issue, i think that given their profits and strong balance sheets, we will see them
start to step up and see more job growth and the economy will kick in and it could be positive. >> you think a result of the deal, if a deal is indeed reached in the near future, it will have the effect of creating jobs? >> absolutely. i think the uncertainty of this has been apaul over the entire economy, and if we lift it, it will make a big difference and a few months down the road we will see a much different economy. >> we had an anemic growth, 1.3%, so would this give you any indication if there is a deal, again, we could start heading in the right direction or not? >> yeah, and this highlights what you just referred to, the fact that the economy stalled out signals how important this deal is. if there is any misstep here, i think it will completely
undermined confidence, and it very likely will step back into recession, if we get the kind of deal that policy makers are talking about this morning, i think that will be enough to jump-start things. the economy, literally, in my mind, hangs in the balance, and the policy makers are the key here, if they do the right thing, they will be okay, and if they do the wrong thing, they will inbound a heap of trouble. >> it's clear that we are standing on the press amiss of something, but we have to wait and see which direction we are headed. thank you for being with us this morning from san francisco. and up next, we turn to 2012 politics, and the campaign of tim pawlenty. he is a presidential candidate that really likes the word "underdog." lines, wrinkles, and sun damage will fade. roc multi-correxion. correct what ages you. roc multi-correxion. ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪
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in two weeks, republican presidential candidates will face a critical test, the aims iowa straw poll will reveal which candidate should be viewed as the next candidate go into the caucus, and last week candy sat down with the former minnesota governor in des moines. >> governor, thank you for joining us. i want to talk about your new ad
that you have out there, using the "do you believe in miracles" from the famous american hockey team that won. >> prove the experts wrong. i am tim pawlenty. >> the concession i think from you is you are running an underdog race, and the question is why? >> for starters, i am not somebody known very well, and we have to do it the old-fashioned way, hard work, 700 miles in an rv, and dubbed the road to results, not just giving speeches or talking and we had enough of that with president obama, but getting things done in minnesota in areas like spending and taxes and conservative court appointments. when people in iowa and people across the country see what i did as a leader, the numbers will move to the positive. >> we have a poll out recently that still shows you 2%, 3%, 4%, around in there. you are not a household name in
iowa or in those states, neither in herman cain or michele bachmann, and have caught fire. >> i am a student like you are, and the campaigns and history and people doing well in early polls almost never become the nominees, and almost never. rudy giuliani was ahead 10 or 20 points. >> not in iowa. >> hillary clinton was way ahead in iowa. these things are not good predictors. of course, people get attention based on other factors, over the long haul when you look at record of results, leadership, executive experience and getting things done and not just talking about it. when the people of iowa zoom in on that, as they will, we'll do well, starting with the aims straw poll coming up. >> resume for resume you started out as a campaign driver which i hadn't realized. you've been in the state legislature, been a governor. you a very lengthy resume. i just wonder if sometimes when you look at the way the race has
gone so far, if you think what is it -- is there an x factor here that i'm missing? >> well, i think the x factor is people initially get buzz or impact around the media impression. but over the long haul, people look for that impression to be not just somebody who is loud or entertaining, but can they really be president of the united states? people want somebody in the oval office who has an experienced, seasoned record of results. that's what i bring to it. i think people in iowa are figuring that out and you're starting to see our numbers move to the positive. the point is, we live in very serious and challenging times. if somebody wants the entertainer in chief, the comedian in chief or the loudest person in the room with great speeches, that's not me. you've got to be authentic, if you look for what has this person done in terms of results on spending, on txs, health care reform the right way, all the republican candidates are going
to say they can do it. i've actually done it. vote ergs are wise and discerning people. the flavor of the month comes and goes. if you look at the races over the long haul, that's going to be an important criteria. >> flavor of the month, needs to have executive experience. these are code works for michele bachmann. >> i know congresswoman bachmann, i like her, i've campaigned with her, we share many or most conservative values. the fact of the matter is, her record in congress in terms of results is nonexistent. she doesn't have the executive experience of running a large enterprise with a public component and driving it to good results. i have. >> what about passion? sometimes people say, oh, he's so nice. is he too nice? do you have the fire in the belly? >> of course. everybody has different styles. leadership styles can vary. i've got more than one gear. you look at what i did in minnesota, one of the most
difficult political environments in the country for a republican, first government shutdown in 150 years, set a record for vetoes, used executive authority to cut more money out of the budget in my eight years as governor than all the 142 years of governors combined. you've been in bars. theperson who shoots their mouth off, the loudest person usually isn't the toughest. don't confuse being positive orr optimistic with being weak. you can be both strong and pleasant and nice. those aren't contradictory things. ronald reagan is a great example of that. >> let me skew about the aims straw poll. you said we need to show movement, trajectory. your aides have said that. does that straw poll matter to you in terms of whether -- of your intent to stay in through the caucuses and beyond? >> we're in this race to win. we're going to win the iowa caucuses. i suppose if we came in dead
last or something in the straw poll, that may have a bearing. we're not going to do that. we're already showing good progress. our goal is to move, as i said earlier, from towards the back of the back to the front of the back. i'm absolutely confident that will happen. this idea we'll drop out after the aim straw poll is preposterous. >> also difficult to fight politically. if you're raising money -- >> i don't see those stories about rick santorum, newt gingrich or herman cain. obviously romney is the front-runner. we acknowledge that. he was the front-runner last time. there's plenty of time and plenty of room for others to catch him, and we will. >> governor pawlenty, thank you so much for joining us here today. we appreciate your time. >> you're welcome. thanks for having me. up next, the latest on the debt negotiations and other headlines. then fareed zakaria gps at the top of the hour. every day, all around the world,
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mcconnell said the deal would call for $3 trillion in spending cuts over the long term. he said the debt limit would be raised in two stages with some sort of mechanism to increase the ceiling again next year. senator chuck shuker grants that they're making progress, but says there's no deal until everything is agreed on. the president's chief economist says the white house does not expect additional revenues in the next year and a half. the attorney for the two american hikers detained in iran says the verdict should be issued within a week. josh fattal and shane bauer were arrested two years ago while hiking in iraq, accused of entering the country illegally and spying. a suicide bomber's car exploded in southern afghanistan killing 12 officers and injuring 14. a top a